Ever since I came across Lucky Otter’s Heaven I have been obsessing about narcissism and the more I keep reading about it, the more it sounds like Jerry. I have even joined Narcissistic Abuse subreddit on Reddit so I can read stories there and learn more about it. I have also been learning about narcissism also being a spectrum and that there are subtypes of it. Not every one is the same with it and I learned that not all of them have high self esteem and think highly of themselves they can also have low self esteem and not like themselves and not all of them boast about themselves and exaggerate their achievements.
Part of me enjoys reading about all this because it’s very interesting and it makes me feel better about myself because it would mean I was not stupid and I am not alone and the other part of me says this is all pointless because I am not even with him and whatever he did in the past is irrelevant because it’s in the past and it’s not going to change anything. Rather he was a narcissist or not is irrelevant. I think majority of the time I am online, I am reading about narcissism. I guess I found a new special interest.
I am realizing he may have been a convert narcissist. That is what Lauren Bennett told me on her Lucky Otter’s Heaven blog. I decided to look it up and found an article and it is almost describing him.
The shy covert form of narcissism is the form that describes Adam best as it is characterized by unfulfilled expectations, and a vulnerability to stress.
He was shy and he always felt alone in the room with other people and he had social anxiety. He also had anxiety and seemed to get it easily so I would say that is stress there he got. He also had expectations that were impossible to meet. He wanted a certain lifestyle but couldn’t have it so he was depressed about it and had low self esteem, nothing seemed to be good enough.
The attribution style of the covert narcissist is also preoccupied with grandiose fantasies, where he is at the centre of his world.
Yes he had dreams but doesn’t everyone and he also had fantasies but doesn’t everyone? But when he would express his, he would act like it will happen and that’s real and he didn’t seem organized. One time while we were delivering papers, we drive by a school with kids outside playing for recess and he says “That is where Junior will go to school when we find a place up here to live” and another time we looked at an apartment in another area and he had me write a check to reserve a apartment unit and we had a few days to change our minds to get my money back and he didn’t even think this all through and he could never seem to know what he wanted in life. It was all fantasies he had and would try and act on them and he obviously didn’t have any money but he always made me think it will happen. So we look at this nice two bedroom apartment and they had yoga classes, exercise room, swimming pool, garages, and it was expensive rent and he was planning on moving in there but it never happened so on the last day of us deciding if we want to live there or not, I call the number and tell the landlord we wouldn’t be moving in and she voids the check. I did this because I didn’t want to lose my money and my ex did a good job with procrastination and he would say he would do things and not ever do them. I felt proud of myself than sitting back and waiting to hear his response and then I lose my money. Another time we were going to take a trip back to Montana to get my stuff and I knew there was no way he could possibly do it due to no money and how disorganized he is and he said at the last minute we couldn’t go and I wasn’t upset because I knew. He also talked about having his ex girlfriend’s daughters living with him when he gets custody of his son and talking about living together and he made it sound like it was all real. He also fought an fought to get custody of his son and there was very little chance he would ever get it because he couldn’t even support himself and he couldn’t afford childcare and he took his kid to work with him and a judge would not grant custody to the dad and have them get food stamps and child support and also the fact women are more likely to get custody and he never gave up but he never got custody. I also remember when he bought these nice furniture and put it on a payment plan and he couldn’t even afford it and he had it in storage. I have no idea if he lost them or had to cancel them because we were no longer together. But I do know he has lost everything twice from looking on her Facebook (she transitioned remember).
He is plagued by feelings of unworthiness and shame as he is unable to attain his goals, but he keeps that fact hidden.
This sounds about right. He didn’t seem to ever meet his goals and he did keep it hidden by acting like it will happen. He had shame I would say because he hated his lifestyle and how he is.
Because of his fear of exposure he is unlikely to seek out appropriate friends, but is more likely to surround himself with inferior types.
He didn’t like me talking to my parents on the phone and always had to know everything I said and he had a very private life and didn’t want people knowing a lot about him. This raised red flags for my parents. He also did not have friends his age and he told me he preferred teens and young women and I am vulnerable and he may view women as inferior and my mom thinks he hated women and had no respect for them. Of course I disagreed with that and said he didn’t hate women but what if she was right? I wonder if my mom has ever known a narcissistic in her life to make her say these things and not believe his “oh poor me” stories and she viewed him as crazy. I wonder if she was ever in any abusive relationships, she has told me she has known some crazy guys before meeting my dad and said it was normal I met two crazy guys because she has known some too.
He will admire people who have high accomplishments; however he will secretly envy them, and hold strong feelings of resentment.
Yes totally him. He seemed to be happy for people with great things and then talk negative about it. he seemed happy for my parents and me for what they did for me and then he seemed critical about it.
He is more likely to hide himself away, and get little credit for his achievements.
He was a very private person and nothing was ever good enough for him.
He has a marked propensity towards feeling ashamed.
I think he was a shamed of himself.
He is on a relentless search for glory and power (often through his children or other family members), and is very sensitive to criticism and failure.
Ah yes, he was very sensitive to criticism and he didn’t feel good about himself because his life was a failure to him so he was not happy about himself and was ashamed of it.
He has an inability to depend or trust on others, and shows irreverence towards authority.
He had trust issues and didn’t want me talking to other guys online unless they had Asperger’s and I refused to dump all my online friends just because they were the wrong gender for him. He also didn’t like me talking to my parent son the phone and he has always been his own boss because he had always been a manager. How many times have I seen people mentioning online about how their bosses are narcissists? He was his own authority so he had control and could do things his way. He considered himself a hard cold boss and people always liked it which is why he always got hired and he blamed it on Black and white thinking which is the reason why I despise black and white thinkers and always find it offensive when they make it a autistic trait because they are basically saying we are cold hearted and judgmental and don’t give a shit about others and will not listen. Black and white thinking is also part of narcissism.
The covert form of narcissism is reflected as hypersensitivity. However, it seems that the covert narcissist fits into everyday society better than the overt variety.
Yes he was very sensitive and cried easily and anything hurt his feelings so I always had to keep thing bottled up, watch what I say and how I say it and he did fit into society. If you were to meet him, he would be a very nice guy and talk easily to you and be happy and you wouldn’t even notice he is an abuser. He seemed to get along well with people because I saw how he talked to everyone and got along and he didn’t seem to have enemies. He had no problem getting a job either and would be hired on the spot according to him.
Whereas when Covert, (Narcissistic Vulnerability-Sensitivity) it is marked by largely unconscious feelings of grandeur and openly displayed lack of self-confidence and initiative, vague feelings of depression, and an absence of zest for work (narcissistic deficiency). The difficulties associated with covert narcissism is that it includes anxiety and pessimism, lack of fulfillment, and vulnerability to life’s traumas, and is also associated with introversion, hypersensitivity, defensiveness, anxiety, and vulnerability. However, both distinct forms of narcissism are associated with psychological problems and difficulties in effective functioning, and both share common narcissistic characteristics such as conceit, self-indulgence, and disregard for the needs of others.
Depression, low self esteem, anxiety, bad self confidence, he had traumas, he was defensive, hypersensitive, he seemed introverted because he didn’t have friends except for lot of acquiescence and he had online friends. I think he had mental issues. My mother thinks he is beyond help when I said I think he had issues he needed to sort out first before entering a relationship. I was told on Wrongplanet by someone that personality disorders are tough to treat because it’s something so normal and natural. I wonder if my mom thinks my ex could have had some problem with his personality which would be why she said he was beyond help because personality disorders are tough to treat.
Another thing I have learned about narcissism is some of them will use their emotions and cry to get their way. They will have crocodile tears. I have no idea if my ex faked his or not but he did cry often. He was very sensitive and would cry. I was on ADISC and an aspie posted on there asking about why being sensitive is so bad and why do people have a problem with it. I told him about my ex and how toxic sensitive people are and he told me it sounded like my ex used his emotions as an excuse whenever he didn’t get his way. That was an eye opener about how wrong I was about sensitive people and my ex was not one of them. He was a manipulator who let himself cry so it was like a tantrum. Then I learned this is a characteristic of convert narcissism. They will cry to get their way, get empathy from you and make you feel guilty. It’s all about them, they never cry for you or anyone else, only for themselves. My ex did cry for himself.
I used to think he was this way because he overcompensated. He didn’t accept himself, he had low self esteem, was jealous so he had to put others down, and he was just a negative person. Now I am realizing these may have been characteristics of narcissism because of the way he handled it. I still wonder if one can stop being a narcissistic. Sometimes I see people say how they can help it and that it’s a choice but I say if this was a choice and they could help it, then wouldn’t they just stop it? Why would this even be a disorder if this was a choice? I don’t think they do it on purpose because they really can’t help it or else it wouldn’t be a disorder at all. Unless they mean people who don’t have NPD but are still a narc but they don’t have the disorder. I think my mom’s oldest sister is one based on the stories my mom has told me about her and she agrees she is one but she does’t have NPD, she is just a narc but doesn’t not have the personality disorder.
But anyway realizing my ex may have been a narc tells me my experience with someone with low self esteem, being very sensitive, especially to criticism, was not accurate at all for how people are with it because he was a narc. Even being in a relationship with someone who claimed to have Asperger’s but yet their honesty always hurt you and they had to tell their kid everything about you, sensitive to criticism, their black and white thinking, their lack of empathy, etc. and then realizing they may have had narcissism would also tell you this is not a typical relationship with a person who is on the autistic spectrum so that would be a relief because it would mean we are not toxic people and that we will abuse you and hurt you emotionallyand bring down your self esteem because that was narcissism they did. But sadly the women at *AssPartners (that is what I call the Delphi forums) don’t give a darn and they don’t care what their partner has but yet they would rather use autism as a scapegoat for their partner’s abuse and get offended if you tell them it was not autism and that is narcissism. You would think they would be relieved after hearing that news like I was about my ex using his emotions as an excuse to get his way? But noooo.
This is supposedly the worst narcissism there is and the toughest to spot but my parents spotted him and saw right through him and believed my stories. From what I have been reading about it, they are so hidden, others won’t see it but you. Like I wrote about my ex, if you met him then, you would think he is a nice guy. When I was with him, I did not see any abuse so I thought my parents were crazy for even thinking I was being abused and I said to my mother ‘No mom he never hit me or called me any names’ and I thought they were being judgmental about him and didn’t understand him but it turns out they were correct and they saw right through him. I wonder if this is why he was always so worried what people thought of him so instead of trying to figure out what makes them think negative things about him and change that about himself, he had anxiety about it instead and worried and didn’t want me talking to my parents. He never told me I couldn’t talk to them nor did he ever stop me, he would just get upset and had to hear our conversation so I would only call them when he was at work or when he was inside a store or something and I also used to take a step outside just to talk. He never followed me. I would get off the phone when I would see him coming. He was also vulnerable to stress and he was always worried like the articles say about it.
Wouldn’t it be ironic if his own ex was a narc? Just something in the articles jumped out at me when I read it and I am basing it on the stories my ex told me about her when we were together.
My ex also blamed him being hyper sensitive and taking things the wrong way I say on his social issues. I even wonder if he used Asperger’s for his behavior and hid behind the label. I am even thinking what if all his traits were actually narc traits. What if he had just made the whole thing up? Sure he had above normal hearing but I have met **allistic people with that good of hearing too. But he told his son about it and everyone else and she had it on her Facebook wall too but she mostly talked about her multiple scoliosis. But narcs can use labels right to hide behind it so they can continue their behaviors and use the label for it to make themselves look innocent because Asperger’s is better than being a narc. But one can have both I believe. We are not immune to it. Even when we were together and after we had broken up, I felt he used it as an excuse because instead of trying to improve things, he did nothing. He discovered it, read about it, decided it fit him and that explained his behavior and then that was it. Didn’t decide what he can do to improve like most aspies would. I am not saying that there are none that use theirs as an excuse because I have seen that a lot online too but they could be the minority of the autistic population. He always told me how he wasn’t normal and how he wanted to be normal but yet he wasn’t doing anything to be normal. I wished I had said something about it but didn’t because I thought it would be like telling a bling person they can work on seeing now that they know they are blind. Actually that is possible, they have surgeries for it just like I could get a laser eye surgery so I wouldn’t need glasses anymore. I used to be deaf and then I had tubes put in but I was under two years of age when it happened. I had middle ear fluid so that made me deaf so it got fixed but it took my mom awhile to work on me hearing again and that was her trying to find doctors to listen to her and having to find a doctor on her own because no one would give her a referral. Back then we didn’t have internet like we do now so she couldn’t go online and look for a doctor in the area that specialized in ears. She also couldn’t go on and ask online about referrals and where to go like parents do now with their special needs kids or when they are sick. I have seen aspies get better too me included and in Parenthood Hank finds out he had it and he starts working on being a better person through help with his therapist such as being better at empathy and showing better care for others and being more sensitive and my ex didn’t do that. I would like to think it was because he probably didn’t know how to do it and also he couldn’t afford therapy and had no health insurance. But yet he could have used his grandparents money to pay for therapy.
Also this stuck out for me too:
Narcissists will put down and insult the people around them, including family members, in private to their partner. This seems like they are putting others down while putting themselves up on a pedestal in order to make themselves feel better than everyone else.
My ex did all of this, put my family down to me, said they spoiled me and let me get away with things based on my diagnoses, thought it was wrong for them to not humiliate me whenever I did a social blunder or did a mistake and told me how bad my self help skills were and how low functioning I am. He also said how my parents don’t want me to feel bad so they will say how mild I am and that I am no that bad off. I am embarrassed to say I believed him so I thought i was worse off than I rally was, handicapped and disabled. I was brainwashed and felt confused so I made tons of posts about it online and I was accused of seeking attention and faking it but what they didn’t know was that I was a victim of emotional abuse and gaslighting so I was being told these things and believing it. There is a saying my mom told me about, “if you hear a lie, it becomes true.” The first negative thing my ex ever told me was when we were going down to California to get his son because he had visitation rights with him for one week because it was Christmas vacation for him, he told me “I think you have some low functioning autism in you” and I said “what? why do you say that?” and he told me how I don’t get things and I am slow at understanding so I ask lot of questions. I noticed online how other autistic people seemed to get things quicker than me so maybe it was true and I was mixed perhaps. After all I had always felt slow and stupid even my report cards are bad everything needed improvement and I had C’s or B’s and I didn’t like the comments either teacher’s wrote like how I don’t follow the rules and another I remember is difficulty with change and aspies are very smart and get good grades and are advanced in knowledge and language and I wasn’t. After all he was just being honest and he wouldn’t hurt me because he really liked me and was crazy over me. Little did I know this was the beginning of his negativity towards me and it would get worse and worse before he is saying I am like a five year old and using it against me. I will not let anyone do this to me again and not listen to them if they try to say how low functioning I am and do any armchair diagnosis. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
Sadly these things are common in abusive relationships and it may not be about being told about how bad you are with your disability, it can be about other things which is one of the reasons why women stay because they believe they are not good enough and no other man would want them and they are lucky their partner tolerates them and puts up with it because they love them.
*ASPartners is the actual name of the forum.
**Another term for normie, a person who doesn’t have autism