I was reading a thread on raisedbynarcissists on Reddit and it reminded me of a story about Jerry that has something to do with ABDL slightly.

I remember the day when Jerry kept telling me how stupid he is. I kept telling him he was not because I didn’t think he was. He knew how to fix cars, he could drive, he worked, he had a good sense of direction and had a GPS in his head because he once worked as a delivery driver and he remembered lot of stuff and told good stories about when he was still with his ex. But no he kept insisting he was stupid. I kept saying he was not and the more he kept on saying it, I realized he was stupid in one area. ABDL because he kept comparing AB to pedophilia so I finally agreed with him and told him he is stupid about ABDL because he won’t listen to me about it when I try to educate him about it and he keeps thinking adult babies are real babies and calling people who love them as a pedophile. There came the tears and he started to sob. I was “self centered” and I had made him cry. It was my fault for what I did. He laid on his bed and cried and cried. Now I had to try and find a way to make him feel better so I told him everyone is stupid. We’re all stupid in certain subjects. Not all of us want to listen and learn things and understand so we’re stupid there. We’re all stupid. Smart people can be stupid, smoking is stupid and smart people still do it, smart people still do drugs. We’re all stupid. I also laid on top of him to try and make him feel better.

After knowing for a year now he is a narcissist, I wonder if this was manipulation he was doing. Those fake tears, trying to fish for a compliment and it backfired so next came the crying. I don’t know if I gave him what he wanted but he was all of a sudden better and the tears were gone. I realize this is not “normal” behavior and “normal” people don’t do this. “Normal” people wouldn’t keep on putting themselves down and keep on doing it after being told what they think of themselves isn’t true and then finally crying when the person does finally agree with them. I even told him he was the one who kept saying he was stupid after I told him he was not so he pushed me to say he is stupid. Then he said “you were supposed to say “No you are not stupid.” Oh so because I wasn’t saying those exact lines, he kept on pushing it and then he cried when he didn’t hear that line and because he didn’t get that line from me, I was “self centered” and he blamed it on my diagnoses. Then the whole thing was over. But he never did this scheme again.

But this sort of thing is very familiar I read in raisedbynarcissists. It’s as if the N tries to egg their victim to tell them something they don’t want to hear or trick them to say it so when the victim does have the balls to say it, the N blames it on them. It was as if my ex was trying to egg me to tell him he is dumb and then there comes the crocodile tears while in the other stories I read, it’s the gas lighting and the blame being put on the victim and the N going into rage while my ex did it in a covert way I had started to think there was something wrong with me and I could never do anything right. But I say when my nex did this to me, it backfired so he never did this again. I instead put the blame on him. I unintentionally played his game and because I did, it was the “Asperger’s” that did it and I was “self centered.”

And people sometimes ask me how did I even get into a relationship with this guy. I know they don’t mean it literally, they are just saying why was I with him if he was a jerk. That is a very difficult question to answer, it’s difficult for anyone to answer.

But in the thread it was pretty hilarious when the OP wrote that her Nmom told her she had abused her as a baby too, she was crying all the time and my reaction was “just when did it become parental abuse to cry?” being sarcastic of course and then I said anyone who thinks that is abusive is mental. I don’t say my kids abuse me just because my son liked to smear feces on walls as a two year old and now my daughter likes playing with her poop and getting it on herself and she got it on her toy piano and her bedroom door yesterday and I don’t say my kids are abusing me by being loud and rowdy and my son riling my daughter up with his hyperactivity. I know they are not doing it to torment me. They’re kids. I have them outside right now playing while I sit on the porch typing this. But sometimes I do find humor in these narc stories. The victims find humor too also. Sometimes you have to find humor in a abusive situation to make a light of it. I do now look at my ex as having a temper tantrum when we were together. Him calling me self centered, him getting upset with me and mad at me and crying, all him throwing a tantrum just like a young child. Even one aspie told me on ADISC he thinks my ex was just using his emotions as an excuse to get his way so it’s not that he was over sensitive. Back then I just saw it as his opinion and now I think he is right. The Nmom in the OP’s thread had asked her if she ever made any mistakes in her parenting and the OP dared to say yes and bam the mother accuses her of arguing with her and telling her to quit blaming her and she did nothing wrong and that she abused her as a baby because she was crying all the time and she doesn’t complain. Then some people share their stories and it felt familiar to this I went through when my ex wouldn’t quit telling me how stupid he is.

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What if my ex wasn’t a narcissist?

So I go back and forth to thinking maybe Jerry wasn’t a narcissist. It was something I wrote online to a question about what bigot thing has your friend said or done and people were talking about what their own family members have said or co workers or relatives. I wrote about my ex:

My ex boyfriend was a homophobic and he would call them fagots and say they were shoving it in their faces and then he said “I don’t dislike gays, I just don’t like their lifestyle.” Also he told me about transgender “You can’t turn into a woman, you will always be a guy.” Ironically he came out as transgender and transitioned into a woman and is now claiming to be bisexual mostly lesbian, go figure. My husband said she was just over compensating when I told him about it when I found out online by looking her son’s mother up and she turned out to be my ex. But her bigoted comments were one of the reasons why we were not together.

My ex boyfriend also hated AB/DLs so he also judged them and made fun of them and called anyone pedos who was turned on by adult babies.

What if how he treated me was all based on him over compensating? My husband thinks she was in the closet AB and I remember her telling me if she wasn’t incontinent, she wouldn’t be wearing diapers because it’s not normal. She also hated being different so what if she took that out on me so it made her not accept me so she would punish me by ignoring me because she was too embarrassed? I was just being myself than trying to be normal and she hated that. Reading at the table wasn’t normal, jumping up and down when excited wasn’t normal, my grin on my face was too childish for her, playing my Nintendo DS in public wasn’t normal. My video games were too childish and the shows I watched on TV but yet she was fine with teen shows she liked watching and movies that were made for teens but yet she didn’t like me reading seventeen magazines or having Radio Disney CDs. She was a big hypocrite. Even trying to win with her and argue and trying to show her and pointing out her hypocrisy didn’t work. She would just call it a game or come up with excuses. Then I read online that you never argue with an abuser and retaliating against them also doesn’t work because you end up hurt at the end which is so true.

I remember how relieving it was when I found out it was all about her and I did nothing wrong, it was just her because she didn’t like herself and was in denial and it only hurt her because she over compensated by taking it out on me and it killed our relationship. What if all this just made her fit the profile of a covert narcissist? Can one still be a narcissist due to over compensation and not liking themselves?

Lesson my ex taught me

So I still go back and forth sometimes about rather Jerry was a narcissist or not.

There was one thing I remember that makes me go thinking maybe he wasn’t one was I was an AB and he was only a DL but he hated ABs and thought they were all pedophiles and sickos. I naively thought he would change his mind once I educate him and show him. I wanted to be accepted by him so I “shoved it in his face” he called it. I would keep trying to tell him about it, I even used my baby things in front of him to show him how adult babies are still adults, not real children and they are not retarded (pardon the slur word because I am not fond of political correctness and even Temple Grandin still uses the word in her books, mentally retarded). But he called it a game and said I did it to piss him off so I did it for real just to drive him crazy because he was a bigot and narrow minded and willful ignorant and I don’t like willful ignorance. I just wouldn’t give up trying to educate him but I am sorry but you can’t educate stupid. If people don’t want to open their minds and listen and learn, you can’t make them. So I was the one being closed minded because I was not accepting that he was not into it and not comfortable with it. But I realize it was the way he handled it because he judged us and made fun of me about it and used it against me, not because he wasn’t comfortable with it or wasn’t interested.

Then I remember the other shit he has done so it makes me realize ABDL did not cause this nor was it my fault because if it wasn’t ABDL, he would have still found something else to abuse me about. If it was only this he did and not the other shit he has done which I have blogged about already, then I would think he was not a narcissistic but because he did the other stuff, I go back to thinking “yep he is one.” Remember, his ex did leave him and she wouldn’t even let her children talk to him or even let her daughters see him and she would always have to meet us in the parking lot when we would get his son and to drop him off. She also came with her boyfriend always. Gee, why is this? This should also tell me something. there is probably something about him I don’t know about.  Also she would always threaten to leave him and take their son with, also she claimed her son wasn’t his so he had to go get a copy of his son’s birth certificate to prove it. Mmm why, maybe because she wanted him to stop abusing her so she used their son to threaten to leave him and to take him with, maybe she claimed he wasn’t his because she didn’t want him in her life and when you have kids together, you have to still see the kid’s parent unfortunately and still deal with them until the day they turn eighteen or leave high school, maybe after too because there might be adult kid issues they would have to deal with together. But if your partner is abusive, you might do anything to try and get the kid’s parent out of your life and some other parents keep the parent in their kid’s life. My brother’s girlfriend is a bitch because there are things she has done that is mean and she lies to her children about us but my brother never alienated her from their kids because he thinks his kids have a right to their mother and to keep his and her issues separate from them. She is only nice when she wants something and she puts on a nice act for everyone so she seems nice when you know her. But anyway Jerry’s ex finally grew a bone and took their kid and left him with her daughters. But I will never know for sure if the stories he told me about her were lies. But the way he treated me does make me wonder how he treated his ex and if that is why she left him.

But the lesson I learned here is if someone doesn’t understand AB/DL and they are ignorant about it and associate it with kids or feel like they are with a child, and think it’s pedophilia or think you are sexually attracted to kids, run. Do not stay and try and educate them because you will be hurt at the end and might have resentment. If they do not accept it so they want you to do it in private, run. That can still cause damage at the end and resentment and hurt feelings because you felt you were not accepted. This is what Jerry had taught me so I always tell other ABDLs to run when they write about their partner not understanding their fetish or their needs for it.

But Jerry was a narcissist so I have no idea how a none narc acts about all this when they also don’t understand it or feel uncomfortable with it and not want it around them. But that is the only image that comes to mind when I read their posts about it so my knee jerk reaction is run, leave, run for your life.

Small Sacrifices

I decided to do some random research again and this time it was on Diane Downs. What lead me to it was seeing on Reddit that Ann Rule died at the age of 83 and it mentioned she wrote Small Sacrifices and I looked it up and saw it was about Diane Downs and I saw a movie was made out of it. So today I decide to look her up and I learn something new. She has a daughter a year older than me and she got pregnant with her during trial and had her ten days after she was sentenced. Of course her daughter was adopted out by the state to a different couple so she never met got to meet her half siblings. But after reading some articles on her, I decide to watch the movie so I check to see it’s on youtube and I find it and it had foreign subtitles but the spoken language was in English. It starred Farrah Fawcett and if the movie was actually accurate about how Diane behaved, I didn’t know she was crazy.That would be my mom’s word. The way she talked and behaved and acted the part she had her fourth child and then she was snatched from her and she didn’t seem to care and the way she dressed while being transported. They said she was a narcissistic and had antisocial personality disorder and she was labeled as a deviant sociopath. I wondered why couldn’t her ex husband take custody of their kids and I got my answer at the end. But I cannot imagine hurting my own children or imagine doing a crime and then wanting all the attention. That to me is crazy. It makes me wonder what she was like during all those years before she killed her daughter and attempted to kill her two others because she was a sociopath. I remember seeing a book about it when I was 15 and I wanted to read it but my aide wouldn’t let me because she thought it would be a bad book for me. What did she think it was going to do to me? Make me think it’s okay to kill your kids if you don’t want them anymore? Even I knew then she was selfish and in 5th grade when I first heard about her killing her kids, I was shocked because I never heard of a parent killing their own children. Now I want to read the book and see how different it is from the movie. The movie fictionalized names except for Diane’s but I know the book didn’t because I remember the names. But her dad believes she is innocent so he has a website up about her trying to prove her innocence and I wonder if narcissists believe their own lies and are they actually that delusional like does Diane really believe some random man shot her kids and think she is really innocent?

My unhealthy obsession

Ever since I came across Lucky Otter’s Heaven I have been obsessing about narcissism and the more I keep reading about it, the more it sounds like Jerry. I have even joined Narcissistic Abuse subreddit on Reddit so I can read stories there and learn more about it. I have also been learning about narcissism also being a spectrum and that there are subtypes of it. Not every one is the same with it and I learned that not all of them have high self esteem and think highly of themselves they can also have low self esteem and not like themselves and not all of them boast about themselves and exaggerate their achievements.
Part of me enjoys reading about all this because it’s very interesting and it makes me feel better about myself because it would mean I was not stupid and I am not alone and the other part of me says this is all pointless because I am not even with him and whatever he did in the past is irrelevant because it’s in the past and it’s not going to change anything. Rather he was a narcissist or not is irrelevant. I think majority of the time I am online, I am reading about narcissism. I guess I found a new special interest.

I am realizing he may have been a convert narcissist. That is what Lauren Bennett told me on her Lucky Otter’s Heaven blog. I decided to look it up and found an article and it is almost describing him.

http://narcissisticbehavior.net/revealing-the-two-faces-of-narcissism-overt-and-covert-narcissism/

The shy covert form of narcissism is the form that describes Adam best as it is characterized by unfulfilled expectations, and a vulnerability to stress.

He was shy and he always felt alone in the room with other people and he had social anxiety. He also had anxiety and seemed to get it easily so I would say that is stress there he got. He also had expectations that were impossible to meet. He wanted a certain lifestyle but couldn’t have it so he was depressed about it and had low self esteem, nothing seemed to be good enough.

The attribution style of the covert narcissist is also preoccupied with grandiose fantasies, where he is at the centre of his world.

Yes he had dreams but doesn’t everyone and he also had fantasies but doesn’t everyone? But when he would express his, he would act like it will happen and that’s real and he didn’t seem organized. One time while we were delivering papers, we drive by a school with kids outside playing for recess and he says “That is where Junior will go to school when we find a place up here to live” and another time we looked at an apartment in another area and he had me write a check to reserve a apartment unit and we had a few days to change our minds to get my money back and he didn’t even think this all through and he could never seem to know what he wanted in life. It was all fantasies he had and would try and act on them and he obviously didn’t have any money but he always made me think it will happen. So we look at this nice two bedroom apartment and they had yoga classes, exercise room, swimming pool, garages, and it was expensive rent and he was planning on moving in there but it never happened so on the last day of us deciding if we want to live there or not, I call the number and tell the landlord we wouldn’t be moving in and she voids the check. I did this because I didn’t want to lose my money and my ex did a good job with procrastination and he would say he would do things and not ever do them. I felt proud of myself than sitting back and waiting to hear his response and then I lose my money. Another time we were going to take a trip back to Montana to get my stuff and I knew there was no way he could possibly do it due to no money and how disorganized he is and he said at the last minute we couldn’t go and I wasn’t upset because I knew. He also talked about having his ex girlfriend’s daughters living with him when he gets custody of his son and talking about living together and he made it sound like it was all real. He also fought an fought to get custody of his son and there was very little chance he would ever get it because he couldn’t even support himself and he couldn’t afford childcare and he took his kid to work with him and a judge would not grant custody to the dad and have them get food stamps and child support and also the fact women are more likely to get custody and he never gave up but he never got custody. I also remember when he bought these nice furniture and put it on a payment plan and he couldn’t even afford it and he had it in storage. I have no idea if he lost them or had to cancel them because we were no longer together. But I do know he has lost everything twice from looking on her Facebook (she transitioned remember).

He is plagued by feelings of unworthiness and shame as he is unable to attain his goals, but he keeps that fact hidden.

This sounds about right. He didn’t seem to ever meet his goals and he did keep it hidden by acting like it will happen. He had shame I would say because he hated his lifestyle and how he is.

Because of his fear of exposure he is unlikely to seek out appropriate friends, but is more likely to surround himself with inferior types.

He didn’t like me talking to my parents on the phone and always had to know everything I said and he had a very private life and didn’t want people knowing a lot about him. This raised red flags for my parents. He also did not have friends his age and he told me he preferred teens and young women and I am vulnerable and he may view women as inferior and my mom thinks he hated women and had no respect for them. Of course I disagreed with that and said he didn’t hate women but what if she was right? I wonder if my mom has ever known a narcissistic in her life to make her say these things and not believe his “oh poor me” stories and she viewed him as crazy. I wonder if she was ever in any abusive relationships, she has told me she has known some crazy guys before meeting my dad and said it was normal I met two crazy guys because she has known some too.

He will admire people who have high accomplishments; however he will secretly envy them, and hold strong feelings of resentment.

Yes totally him. He seemed to be happy for people with great things and then talk negative about it. he seemed happy for my parents and me for what they did for me and then he seemed critical about it.

He is more likely to hide himself away, and get little credit for his achievements.

He was a very private person and nothing was ever good enough for him.

He has a marked propensity towards feeling ashamed.

I think he was a shamed of himself.

He is on a relentless search for glory and power (often through his children or other family members), and is very sensitive to criticism and failure.

Ah yes, he was very sensitive to criticism and he didn’t feel good about himself because his life was a failure to him so he was not happy about himself and was ashamed of it.

He has an inability to depend or trust on others, and shows irreverence towards authority.

He had trust issues and didn’t want me talking to other guys online unless they had Asperger’s and I refused to dump all my online friends just because they were the wrong gender for him. He also didn’t like me talking to my parent son the phone and he has always been his own boss because he had always been a manager. How many times have I seen people mentioning online about how their bosses are narcissists? He was his own authority so he had control and could do things his way. He considered himself a hard cold boss and people always liked it which is why he always got hired and he blamed it on Black and white thinking which is the reason why I despise black and white thinkers and always find it offensive when they make it a autistic trait because they are basically saying we are cold hearted and judgmental and don’t give a shit about others and will not listen. Black and white thinking is also part of narcissism.

The covert form of narcissism is reflected as hypersensitivity. However, it seems that the covert narcissist fits into everyday society better than the overt variety.

Yes he was very sensitive and cried easily and anything hurt his feelings so I always had to keep thing bottled up, watch what I say and how I say it and he did fit into society. If you were to meet him, he would be a very nice guy and talk easily to you and be happy and you wouldn’t even notice he is an abuser. He seemed to get along well with people because I saw how he talked to everyone and got along and he didn’t seem to have enemies. He had no problem getting a job either and would be hired on the spot according to him.

Whereas when Covert, (Narcissistic Vulnerability-Sensitivity) it is marked by largely unconscious feelings of grandeur and openly displayed lack of self-confidence and initiative, vague feelings of depression, and an absence of zest for work (narcissistic deficiency). The difficulties associated with covert narcissism is that it includes anxiety and pessimism, lack of fulfillment, and vulnerability to life’s traumas, and is also associated with introversion, hypersensitivity, defensiveness, anxiety, and vulnerability. However, both distinct forms of narcissism are associated with psychological problems and difficulties in effective functioning, and both share common narcissistic characteristics such as conceit, self-indulgence, and disregard for the needs of others.

Depression, low self esteem, anxiety, bad self confidence, he had traumas, he was defensive, hypersensitive, he seemed introverted because he didn’t have friends except for lot of acquiescence and he had online friends. I think he had mental issues. My mother thinks he is beyond help when I said I think he had issues he needed to sort out first before entering a relationship. I was told on Wrongplanet by someone that personality disorders are tough to treat because it’s something so normal and natural. I wonder if my mom thinks my ex could have had some problem with his personality which would be why she said he was beyond help because personality disorders are tough to treat.

Another thing I have learned about narcissism is some of them will use their emotions and cry to get their way. They will have crocodile tears. I have no idea if my ex faked his or not but he did cry often. He was very sensitive and would cry. I was on ADISC and an aspie posted on there asking about why being sensitive is so bad and why do people have a problem with it. I told him about my ex and how toxic sensitive people are and he told me it sounded like my ex used his emotions as an excuse whenever he didn’t get his way. That was an eye opener about how wrong I was about sensitive people and my ex was not one of them. He was a manipulator who let himself cry so it was like a tantrum. Then I learned this is a characteristic of convert narcissism. They will cry to get their way, get empathy from you and make you feel guilty. It’s all about them, they never cry for you or anyone else, only for themselves. My ex did cry for himself.

I used to think he was this way because he overcompensated. He didn’t accept himself, he had low self esteem, was jealous so he had to put others down, and he was just a negative person. Now I am realizing these may have been characteristics of narcissism because of the way he handled it. I still wonder if one can stop being a narcissistic. Sometimes I see people say how they can help it and that it’s a choice but I say if this was a choice and they could help it, then wouldn’t they just stop it? Why would this even be a disorder if this was a choice? I don’t think they do it on purpose because they really can’t help it or else it wouldn’t be a disorder at all. Unless they mean people who don’t have NPD but are still a narc but they don’t have the disorder. I think my mom’s oldest sister is one based on the stories my mom has told me about her and she agrees she is one but she does’t have NPD, she is just a narc but doesn’t not have the personality disorder.

But anyway realizing my ex may have been a narc tells me my experience with someone with low self esteem, being very sensitive, especially to criticism, was not accurate at all for how people are with it because he was a narc. Even being in a relationship with someone who claimed to have Asperger’s but yet their honesty always hurt you and they had to tell their kid everything about you, sensitive to criticism, their black and white thinking, their lack of empathy, etc. and then realizing they may have had narcissism would also tell you this is not a typical relationship with a person who is on the autistic spectrum so that would be a relief because it would mean we are not toxic people and that we will abuse you and hurt you emotionallyand bring down your self esteem because that was narcissism they did. But sadly the women at *AssPartners (that is what I call the Delphi forums) don’t give a darn and they don’t care what their partner has but yet they would rather use autism as a scapegoat for their partner’s abuse and get offended if you tell them it was not autism and that is narcissism. You would think they would be relieved after hearing that news like I was about my ex using his emotions as an excuse to get his way? But noooo.

http://sparkster.hubpages.com/hub/The-Covert-Narcissist

This is supposedly the worst narcissism there is and the toughest to spot but my parents spotted him and saw right through him and believed my stories. From what I have been reading about it, they are so hidden, others won’t see it but you. Like I wrote about my ex, if you met him then, you would think he is a nice guy. When I was with him, I did not see any abuse so I thought my parents were crazy for even thinking I was being abused and I said to my mother ‘No mom he never hit me or called me any names’ and I thought they were being judgmental about him and didn’t understand him but it turns out they were correct and they saw right through him. I wonder if this is why he was always so worried what people thought of him so instead of trying to figure out what makes them think negative things about him and change that about himself, he had anxiety about it instead and worried and didn’t want me talking to my parents. He never told me I couldn’t talk to them nor did he ever stop me, he would just get upset and had to hear our conversation so I would only call them when he was at work or when he was inside a store or something and I also used to take a step outside just to talk. He never followed me. I would get off the phone when I would see him coming. He was also vulnerable to stress and he was always worried like the articles say about it.

Wouldn’t it be ironic if his own ex was a narc? Just something in the articles jumped out at me when I read it and I am basing it on the stories my ex told me about her when we were together.

My ex also blamed him being hyper sensitive and taking things the wrong way I say on his social issues. I even wonder if he used Asperger’s for his behavior and hid behind the label. I am even thinking what if all his traits were actually narc traits. What if he had just made the whole thing up? Sure he had above normal hearing but I have met **allistic people with that good of hearing too. But he told his son about it and everyone else and she had it on her Facebook wall too but she mostly talked about her multiple scoliosis. But narcs can use labels right to hide behind it so they can continue their behaviors and use the label for it to make themselves look innocent because Asperger’s is better than being a narc. But one can have both I believe. We are not immune to it. Even when we were together and after we had broken up, I felt he used it as an excuse because instead of trying to improve things, he did nothing. He discovered it, read about it, decided it fit him and that explained his behavior and then that was it. Didn’t decide what he can do to improve like most aspies would. I am not saying that there are none that use theirs as an excuse because I have seen that a lot online too but they could be the minority of the autistic population. He always told me how he wasn’t normal and how he wanted to be normal but yet he wasn’t doing anything to be normal. I wished I had said something about it but didn’t because I thought it would be like telling a bling person they can work on seeing now that they know they are blind. Actually that is possible, they have surgeries for it just like I could get a laser eye surgery so I wouldn’t need glasses anymore. I used to be deaf and then I had tubes put in but I was under two years of age when it happened. I had middle ear fluid so that made me deaf so it got fixed but it took my mom awhile to work on me hearing again and that was her trying to find doctors to listen to her and having to find a doctor on her own because no one would give her a referral. Back then we didn’t have internet like we do now so she couldn’t go online and look for a doctor in the area that specialized in ears. She also couldn’t go on and ask online about referrals and where to go like parents do now with their special needs kids or when they are sick. I have seen aspies get better too me included and in Parenthood Hank finds out he had it and he starts working on being a better person through help with his therapist such as being better at empathy and showing better care for others and being more sensitive and my ex didn’t do that. I would like to think it was because he probably didn’t know how to do it and also he couldn’t afford therapy and had no health insurance. But yet he could have used his grandparents money to pay for therapy.

Also this stuck out for me too:

http://sparkster.hubpages.com/hub/Recognizing-The-Narcissist

Narcissists will put down and insult the people around them, including family members, in private to their partner. This seems like they are putting others down while putting themselves up on a pedestal in order to make themselves feel better than everyone else.

My ex did all of this, put my family down to me, said they spoiled me and let me get away with things based on my diagnoses, thought it was wrong for them to not humiliate me whenever I did a social blunder or did a mistake and told me how bad my self help skills were and how low functioning I am. He also said how my parents don’t want me to feel bad so they will say how mild I am and that I am no that bad off. I am embarrassed to say I believed him so I thought i was worse off than I rally was, handicapped and disabled. I was brainwashed and felt confused so I made tons of posts about it online and I was accused of seeking attention and faking it but what they didn’t know was that I was a victim of emotional abuse and gaslighting so I was being told these things and believing it. There is a saying my mom told me about, “if you hear a lie, it becomes true.” The first negative thing my ex ever told me was when we were going down to California to get his son because he had visitation rights with him for one week because it was Christmas vacation for him, he told me “I think you have some low functioning autism in you” and I said “what? why do you say that?” and he told me how I don’t get things and I am slow at understanding so I ask lot of questions. I noticed online how other autistic people seemed to get things quicker than me so maybe it was true and I was mixed perhaps. After all I had always felt slow and stupid even my report cards are bad everything needed improvement and I had C’s or B’s and I didn’t like the comments either teacher’s wrote like how I don’t follow the rules and another I remember is difficulty with change and aspies are very smart and get good grades and are advanced in knowledge and language and I wasn’t. After all he was just being honest and he wouldn’t hurt me because he really liked me and was crazy over me. Little did I know this was the beginning of his negativity towards me and it would get worse and worse before he is saying I am like a five year old and using it against me. I will not let anyone do this to me again and not listen to them if they try to say how low functioning I am and do any armchair diagnosis. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Sadly these things are common in abusive relationships and it may not be about being told about how bad you are with your disability, it can be about other things which is one of the reasons why women stay because they believe they are not good enough and no other man would want them and they are lucky their partner tolerates them and puts up with it because they love them.

*ASPartners is the actual name of the forum.
**Another term for normie, a person who doesn’t have autism

Narcissistic love.

I found this link here:

http://thehappysensitive.com/narcissistic-love-versus-unconditional-love/

It talks about how we love our appliances and we get mad and frustrated when they don’t do what we want it to do. I get frustrated with my ow computer when it acts slow. It will freeze and act funny and then certain webpages will freeze and that makes me frustrated so I have to be patient. Some people have a temper and will curse and swear at it and talk to it like it can hear you and I remember my English teacher saying in high school that sometimes computers like to give you a hard time by freezing just to make you mad. They have a mind of its own. I used to joke about my first computer having Asperger’s because every time it did a Windows update, the computer would act funny and it did not adjust well to the change. So I turned off the update because I hated what it would do to my computer and then I would have to wait for it to adjust before it runs right again.

With narcissists, people are like appliances. They want us to do things they want us to do and they get frustrated when we don’t do what they like. When I was reading the article, it made me think of my ex again. I don’t know if he had NPD so I like to say he had narcissistic behavior and acted like one or say he had tenancies. I think it was due to him over compensating so it made him behave like one and he didn’t like himself so he may not have been a bad person.

In my relationship with Jerry, I felt like I had to be a certain way or else he would ignore me. He never made me be a certain way and he made it clear to me he didn’t want me to change because he did’t want to be a control freak. I felt I had to try and no matter what I did was never good enough to satisfy him to make him feel he was with an adult instead of with a baby or a five year old or with an eight year old. I feel he threw me out of his life like I was a disposable and it made me think of the analogy about when our appliances break down. When an appliance quits working, what do we do about it? We throw it out or put it away and ignore it like we don’t have it anymore. We have our broken DVD/VCR combo player and the motherboard in it fried so now it won’t play VHS movies because it runs slow and I tried to toss it out but we can’t toss it out, it has to be recycled and I don’t know where to recycle appliances so it’s still sitting in the garage. I thought about narcissism, when a partner is useless to them because they are not doing what they want them to do, they all of a sudden ignore them, go silent on them, they don’t bother to break up, they just disappear and ignore you because you are useless to them. That is what my ex did. He ghosted. I would like to think he went silent on me because he thought breaking up with me would hurt my feelings and he didn’t want to hut my feelings so he thought ghosting was the better answer, I also like to think that maybe he was feeling bad for how he treated me and he kept hurting me and confusing me and he didn’t want that so he decided to quit talking to me. But he never apologized so that makes me think “neah that couldn’t be but it is a pipe dream there.” Also the fact he messaged me online about my new boyfriend and saying how he hopes thinks work out for me and then messaging me again months later asking if I am still with the boyfriend and we talk for two minutes and never again do I hear form him. I always found that odd. Maybe he wanted to see if I was working right and I still wasn’t so he decided to leave me in the trash and while he was ignoring me, I was just kept out in the garage like we have with our VCR/DVD combo player because we have no idea what to do with it. He probably didn’t know what to do about me so he had me in the garage. It was very confusing how he treated me and I will never understand it all and I don’t think I will ever understand his idea behind it and his intention.

Could Jerry have been a narcissistic due to him not liking himself and over compensating? Can one stop being a narcissistic after getting their issues resolved? Can a narc still be a good person despite having it?

Was My Ex a Narcissist?

Lately I have been seeing this word around online. Lot of people who had dysfunctional childhoods will say their moms or dads had this. I also ready a blog by an aspie and her mom also had it too and she talks about that condition in her blog and now Sarah Burleton says her mom had it after she had been talking to child abuse survivors online and they all mentioned this word and then she realized what her mom’s mental condition was and what was wrong with her and why she was always nuts. Sometimes you will read about labels and then wonder if someone you knew had it rather it was psychopathy or narcissism.

I started to wonder if my aspie ex could have also been a narc. He always felt the need to put others down and nothing was ever good enough for him. He had to have luxuries; nice furniture and a nice car, nice place to live in and I thought his stuff was fine and I didn’t care about his kitchen stuff or his home or what car he drove and what he had. But it was not good enough. One time we were on the road and I pointed to a crappy pick up truck and it was in worst shape than his car he drove. I told him he had a better car than his and my ex response was “I bet he had a nice one sitting at home and he is just coming home from the dump and he has a nice big yard and a big house with a wife and kids all happy living there.” See, nothing was ever good enough. Even if someone had something crappier than his, he had to make it seem like theirs was still better.

The other one was jealousy. He moved a lot in his childhood, he was in special ed but hated it because it made him feel stupid and he was diagnosed with ADHD and a teacher told him “You are not failing all your classes” because he excelled in math but not in other subjects. He also moved a lot because his parents were poor so it was a bunch of different schools he went to and his mom never bothered to figure out what was wrong with him. She had given up. Instead she had left it up to the schools to decide and figure it out for her. My ex could remember doing a test and he got told “You have a high IQ with no common sense.” Then he meets me and he was so jealous about my childhood and the fact my mom didn’t give up on me and how they managed to get a correct diagnoses for me and I told him “Asperger’s wasn’t known when you were a kid so your mother wouldn’t have found the answer for you.” But it still didn’t matter that his mom gave up or not and wouldn’t have found the answer anyway. Because his childhood was so dysfunctional due to his parents being poor and always being evicted so they moved around the area a lot, he was emancipated at 16 and was working since then being an adult. Me, I didn’t get to have that lifestyle so I didn’t even need to be an adult at 16 and start working and my parents would always support me and help me and he was always on his own so he was critical about it. He made it out to be how incompetent I was and how bad my poor self help skills were so I needed them to support me for the rest of my life. he also told me how slow I was in developing so I wouldn’t have been able to travel on my own at 18 and I told him “I didn’t even have any money, I didn’t even have a real job so I couldn’t afford it and I was not going to spend all my 300 bucks from allowance going to Spokane” he then said “What if they handed you some money to go for the weekend” and I said “maybe if they handed me at least a thousand, I would be able to go and not worry about running out.” That still wasn’t good enough so he insisted my self help skills were poor. I actually fell for it and felt so bad about myself and I thought I was more severe than I really was. I realize now this was just him being jealous and his low self esteem so he had to make me feel bad to make himself feel better because he had to be an adult early and support himself and always take care of himself and I had supportive parents and I wouldn’t have to struggle and work hard like him and he was jealous.

When we first met, he wanted to give me anything, he told me he would give his woman anything and not expect anything from her. He paid for everything and took me anywhere. This was great right and what a great guy he is. I also didn’t know this was a red flag for some women and this behavior actually puts a woman off because the person comes off as desperate. You might also feel you are using or taking advantage of him so you may feel uncomfortable with this behavior. I felt this way and he reassured me and I stopped feeling guilty. He even offered to fix my car and hey saving money right? So my dad took me out to him when I decided to move out there and be with him and he said he would fix my car. It never happened until we moved out of his apartment. I also couldn’t go out and find a job because I didn’t know how to work the bus system and I couldn’t drive his car because no one was on the insurance. He had changed it so only he could drive it to save money. Rule of thumb, do not try and be cheap by having someone fix your car for you for free after they tell you they will do it. Do not rely on them. Being frugal is not always the answer.

He had me believing I was crazy. I would think I twisted what he said because he would tell me he never said that I did and I thought I had a bad memory because I couldn’t remember saying certain things and I would swear he said this or that but he would then tell me he never said that. I often felt like I needed a tape recorder to record all our conversations to prove he said this or that or that i said this or that. Yes this is a form of gaslighting and I had no idea this was called emotional manipulation. I had no idea these were mind games. He had told me he was honest and he doesn’t lie so I always believed him and I thought I had a terrible terrible memory so I was always second guessing myself and questioning myself.

He would always tell his son everything about me and none of our conversations were private and if I took something literal, he would tell it to him or if I didn’t know he was teasing, he would tell his son about it. This was something kids did at my school when I was little and other kids would laugh and tease me about it and know how “stupid” I was but I assumed my ex didn’t know what he was doing and he didn’t understand because he had Asperger’s right and he was just too honest and didn’t have a filter. I just had to accept it. I thought it was not his intent to bully me so this is not what he was doing. I didn’t know then I could still tell him to stop doing it and I don’t like it. I did ask him if he had to tell his son everything and he didn’t need to know but he still did it saying he doesn’t lie and he felt not telling his kid everything would be lying because his kid always asked. But he didn’t need to tell him anything, just tell him it was none of his damn business. I didn’t realize I didn’t have to tolerate this and let this happen. I didn’t know it was a form of abuse and him attempting to humiliate me. Just because someone has AS does not mean they can be a dick and be abusive.

He was very black and white, no question about it.

No matter what I said, he would always cry because of things I would say. I refused to walk on eggshells and I often made him cry. I was the abuser technically because I was always hurting his feelings even if I didn’t mean to. He was very sensitive.

I also had to keep my feelings bottled up because he would take things the wrong way I say and get mad at me if I had anxiety or if anything was bothering me or if my mind was being destructive with all these thoughts in my brain, the worrying and the stress like my car not being done and me not having a job and me wanting to get settled. Talking about this would have upset him and make him mad and it felt he would twist what I say. One example was when he was cooking pasta. He accidentally spilled some macaroni in the sink because he started cussing. I asked him what was wrong and he said “I spilled some noodles in the sink” and I said “That is less calories for you to have” and he said “You called me fat, thanks a lot” and I said “I didn’t call you that” and he said “telling me that is less calories for me is saying I’m fat.”

Could he have been a narcissist or was it just his depression and low self esteem speaking? Behaviors can overlap.

The person I mentioned here in this blog who does her own blog wrote this:

http://luckyottershaven.com/2014/10/03/survivor-hypervigilance-and-the-danger-of-false-labeling/

and she talks about the danger of false labeling. I don’t want to falsley label my ex as one just because some of the descriptions sounded like him for How to spot a narc. I think you can have some narc in you and not have NPD. She also talked about what other disorders can mimic the condition. I sometimes feel like a narc but everyone is to a degree. We all want attention, we all want to be knowledge, we all want to tell about our achievements and what great things we have done, but some people take it above the mean. Hell even mommy bloggers get called a narc and I think they are just misusing the term. Even Kelli Stapleton was called a narc because of her blog about her daughter’s aggression and being treated for it and doing fundraising to help support her treatment and showing her black eyes and her being in the hospital and a video of her being beaten by her daughter as a way to get more support and help and how serious this all is and no one will believe how a kid can be dangerous so more help please. One thing I wonder is where the hell was the brother when she would beat their mom? Did she wait until he wasn’t home? (Matt was often gone so he got very little of the aggression)If he was home, why didn’t he defend their mom and grab Issy? My brother would always butt in to defend our mother if I got too aggressive with our mom because I was trying to be Frankie and have ODD to get my way. Back then I thought ODD was a choice and that people created labels for behaviors people do and you can be anything you want to be. If you want to be an asshole, be one. If you don’t want to be one, stop being one. If you want to be good, be good. If you want to be bad, be bad. If you want to be a nice person, be nice. If you want to be a show off, be a show up, don’t want to be one, don’t be one. Oh want to be a screamer, start screaming. So my whole life I have always copied and mimicked behaviors I was exposed to which was why I was placed in mainstream. Me being in a self contained room was not a good environment for me where kids were not able to act appropriate. To me it was all normal behavior and I thought the teacher assigned certain rules to certain students so I would sometimes break a rule to see if that rule didn’t apply to me. I would test them to see what my limits were and what the rules were for me. I didn’t realize I was confused because of the inconsistencies. Then when I discovered I was allowed to scream I did it in school because that was where I was allowed to do it. One day I brought it home and learned I was not to do that at home and it was school behavior and I was at home now so I couldn’t do that and me telling my mother “Sorry I forgot, that’s school behavior, I am at home now so now I have to do home behavior” was an eye opener for my mother at age seven and she found out after that I was in the wrong class and I had to be taken out of there. It took them until I was eight to be taken out of that class and placed in mainstream. So this is a problem folks when you place all special needs kids in one room segregating them from normies. They will just all mimic each other and not learn any appropriate behavior and if you have a kid that copies everyone, you do not want them in that class. Some kids benefit in these sort of classrooms but not all of them which is why I am all for inclusion. If a kid can’t be in there alone, have an aide with them, if they act up and start disrupting class, remove them from the room for them to calm down and then bring them back when they are done. It’s not black and white. Well I got off topic again. Typical me.

So blogging about your life as a parent makes you a “narc” and blogging about being beaten by your child and showing your injuries or them beating you and about their aggression and you trying to treat it in them so they won’t be anymore and them getting help for it. I do think the term is over used which is what I think Lucky Otter’s Haven’s blog entry was about.

EDIT:

Another to add is I was reading Addicted to Love and Drama blog and I read an entry where the blogger was being ignored by her lover and he would ignore her calls and his excuse was he was “busy” and cancel out the last minute they were supposed to go out. This reminded me about my ex. Once we moved out of his apartment, he went living with his parents and I lived with my aunt and uncle. It was supposed to be that we would be separated until he found another place to rent again but instead he started to ignore me. He wouldn’t answer his phone and he wouldn’t chat with me online despite being on and his excuse was he was “busy.” There was a time when we were supposed to go out and have fun and I was on the toilet and he happened to be on his way over and because I was on the toilet, he decide to cancel out and go home. I was heartbroken. There was another time when he told me his niece would be graduating and he wanted to take me with. I got happy about it because we were going to be together again, I never hear from him all week and that day comes and I can’t get a hold of him. I end up going to a AB munch instead that was in the huge park here in the city and it has a dead volcano and it’s a huge forest and a hill and it has a reservoir. It has trials and picnic tables and a playground. I am wondering now if he did this on purpose. This hurt more than a break up. If you want to break up with someone, at least break up with them than ghost so that way they know they are single and no longer together and they can move on. There will be no stress and the anxiety. There might still be hurt feelings but it’s not as hurtful as going silent on them and saying nothing. My mistake was not breaking up with him as soon as I could and another mistake was being too concerned about his feelings I wasn’t able to break up with him and I could have driven to his work and walk in and break up with him there and not care if it would be asshat of me because it would have been in front of his co workers. but it would have been the price of ignoring me and being impossible to reach and I didn’t know where his parents lived. I didn’t know the address and I couldn’t remember the location. My rule of thumb is if anyone ever goes silent on you, move on, assume you are single and move on. It doesn’t matter if they are aspie or have some mental illness or whatever. Move on. If someone can’t even bother to answer their phone and keep in touch and not include you in their life so you feel single, they shouldn’t be in a relationship. But this was another narc thing he did. Then he messages me again twice after I met my husband and then I never heard from him again. Thank god. I don’t want anyone in my life who talks to me and then disappears and then comes back and disappears again.

I will say I am lucky I got out and he let me go even though it feels he threw me out. He wasn’t one of those guys who doesn’t let his woman go so he threatens her or stalks her and gives her guilt trips for leaving. Instead he will just look for another woman. Some guys are like that. Instead it’s like once they find someone is useless they throw them out so they get “busy” and then go silent. If we had a kid together then that would have been a big mistake and he would have stayed in my life and not be silent with me and I probably wouldn’t have told him about my pregnancy so I end up raising the kid alone without the dad and I can understand now why some women don’t tell their ex’s that they are pregnant with their child so they never know they have a child. Just don’t ask for child support. This may seem selfish that I would even think about keeping my kid from their dad but I wouldn’t want them exposed to his homophobia and AB/DL and bigotry hate and their judgmentalness on life. I saw his son was the mini him because he seemed to be a follower with his opinions and agree with everything he said. I would not want my kid to be that way and then hate on me and turn against me because their dad said this or that about me and how “incompetent” I am and how “retarded” I am and “slow.” I could not imagine the drama it would be if I got pregnant and told him I was pregnant with his baby just to keep him in my life and be friends like he promised we would always be if things didn’t work out between us. That would be idiotic too and he would probably want full custody so I would have to be sucked into that drama going to court myself and having a lawyer and also play games to keep him away like his ex was doing. I wouldn’t make anything up in court of course, just tell the judge how he treated me and everything and the kind of person he is and use his income against him and his lifestyle and how he can’t manage his money so he is always broke and how he can;t make enough income to afford a child. I sometimes wonder if that is what really happened when his doctor he hired said he wouldn’t be able to take care of his son because of his Asperger’s and I wonder if his doctor never said that and my ex was just using it as an excuse because he blamed it on that.

Kids are honest so I sometimes wonder if his son was ever talking about me to his mother and she read between the lines and used it against him in court so his doctor told the judge there is no way he can be a father to his child. But I will never know.

Edit #2:

My husband and I were heading home and I was talking and then something else popped in my head about my ex. I read on Addicted to Drama blog about her ex being a hypocrite and avoiding responsibility. I realized that about my ex on the way home and I remember the things he did were; his landlord decided she wanted her rent on time instead of getting it late from him. She had also let him give it to her late and then February 2007 she decided she wanted her rent now so my ex called it a game she played. My ex decided to move out of her apartment because he got tired of her “games” so he told her he was moving out, she decides to leave a note on his door to evict him and he called that a game. He told me a story once how he lost one of his other jobs due to his mother. I asked what happened and he told me how he couldn’t be at work that day so he couldn’t give everyone their paychecks so he gave them to his mother to give and instead she lost them and it cost my ex his job. I told him then it was his own fault because it was his own responsibility to give them to the employees, not his mother. She didn’t work there. You see he would always procrastinate. So he had himself to blame. Another thing I remember is his hypocrisy. He felt like he was with a five year old and refused to do anything with me if I was acting too childish so basically I had to put on a mask to make sure I was grown up enough for him. But yet he was like a teen because he had a bit of immaturity in him and he liked to watch shows like The Suite Life of Zach and Cody, shows on Disney. I told him I would refuse to have anything to do with him if he is like a teen because I feel like I am with a teen, not an adult. He called that a game. Another thing about him is he would always talk, he would sometimes keep me up at night by his talking so I told him one day I should start talking to him when he is trying to sleep to see how he likes that and he called that a game. He refused to see from a different perspective and how he was acting and he refused to see his own hypocrisy and take responsibility so he called anything a game he didn’t like. My husband’s thought about it was he was not a good guy. What he thought of him about the landlord thing, he said he didn’t have a touch on reality and he lived in a fantasy world and he needed to get a grip. I told my husband I am strongly believing he was a narcissist. I realized he also played games when he would be the one accusing me and others playing games. I think holding his rent money until the last day when she was expecting the rent by 2/20 was a game he played and he told me he would just hang on to it to piss her off because of her “game.”